Remove the old mineral oil from the compressor by turning it upside down, side to side, and turn the front hub on the clutch assembly. The expansion valve(Tx) is in the car at the inlet line to the evaporator with compressors you best get advice from an ac specialist shop as the differences could be the gas that it pumps some systems use R12 and others use R134a or later gas yes R1234yf Freon gas can be replaced by R134a; the newer systems were designed with this in mind so no, there will be no damage to the compressor but some time in . Answer: OK, I'll bite. The ozone depletion potential of a chemical is a factor that shows the level of degradation itll cause to the ozone layer that surrounds and secures the earth from harmful radiation. . Just had knee surgery yesterday, so I"M not exactly hopping around too well. Rxmechanic.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for website owners to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Then again, there are two different expansion valves. Make sure to get the R12 EXP valve if that is the way you go. I remember I had the wrong seals and it leaked some oil, so I put some more in.Bohica - I tested the pressures. It's best to determine on a case-by-case basis while monitoring system pressures and output air temperature. absorb by the evaporator to insure all liquid refrigerant entering the evaporator. Is that why expansion valves are specific to R12 or R134A? Additionally, R134a was introduced as a replacement for R22 and R12 in high and medium-temperature refrigeration systems like domestic and commercial chillers. Use a drop light in the engine bay, and check the air path from the front of the car at night. R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. 2) Frost on the Vents. The difference really shows up on the high side. Any advice appreciated. _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." When the sensor detects the refrigerant leak the sniffers lights glow and the sniffer makes a noise. compressor, condenser, evaporator and expansion valve are specifically designed for use with R134a. and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . Here are the basics for converting a system that does not have a charge of R12, its empty. This is because R134a. Autor de l'entrada Per ; Data de l'entrada calexico west port of entry hours; 12 month libor rate 2021 a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve At this point it is time to make an appointment with the a/c shop. Generally you follow the refrigerant flow moving from connection to connection, component to component, and you sniff the a/c vents to check for evaporator leaks as well. shown for the parallel flow, aluminum condenser that is listed. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. Low refrigerating effect per pound: In comparison to other refrigerants, the refrigerating effect of R12 per pound is low. The OEM spec is 2300 rpm @ 12.6v (engine stopped fully charged battery). The first vehicle that used the R1234yf refrigerant was the 2013 Cadillac XTS. R-12 - yellow R-134a - light blue R-22 - green R-402A - light brown (sand) R-402B - olive R-404A - orange R-407C - medium brown R-410A - rose R-507 - teal J Originally Posted by goldNSX. If you're getting a R134a compressor, might as well finish the job - replace the receiver/dryer, flush everything else, and convert to R134a anyhow. With the A/c off hi and lo were both at 105psi. For instance at 25 F the pressure of R-12 is 24.6 PSI and the pressure of R-134a is 22.1 PSI. RULES for AOP - Owner Assistance and Contractors, Energy Efficiency and Building Performance Discussion NEW, Carnak Zone/Locked Areas - For Professional Member Only, How To Become a Pro and Rules For Pro Members, Pro Forum: Refrigerants and EPA regulations **NEW, Pro Forum: Residential Refrigeration and Appliances **NEW, Pro Forum: Equipment Recalls and Bulletins **NEW, Pro's Forum: Building Science Discussions, Educational Forums - Open for all in the industry, Welcome to HVAC-Talk's Educational Forums, How to Submit Links, Articles and Quiz Questions, Frequently Asked Questions About Submissions, Physics, Thermodynamics, Fluid Flow and Combustion, Educational, Training & Reference Information, Manufacturer's Technical Information Links, Electrical Theory, Circuits and Electronics, HVACR Equipment, Components & Accessories, Accessories Humidifiers, Air Cleaners, HRUs, Fans, Filters, etc. Flush with a garden hose - do not use a high pressure washer - you can bend the fins flat & damage the condensor.B. There is more to check.The evaporator must be clean as well as the condensor - was this a smoker's car?You should check the water control valve for the heater core. 37 in 2005 tacoma, R134A. After the optimum refrigerant charge is determined the car should be test driven to check for performance of the system. system of 0.33 TR and refrigerant used was R12. Thanks again. That is a good thing. had writing on the side that said R134a. asia pacific stevie awards 2021. gin, amaretto cocktail. The money you will save by will pay for the R12. I've straightened the fans I can and sprayed simple green on it, let it soak then hosed it down well. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." In a comparison between R12 vs R134a vs R1234yf, R1234yf will pass as the best refrigerant. Best for varieties of operating conditions: Its boiling point is -21.6 Celsius. Kommentare . However, the supply houses don't indicate a difference. R134a is otherwise called 1,1,1,2 Tetrafluoroethane, Florasol 134a, Freon 134a, Norflurane (INN) or HFC 134a. This is 11F off the FSM performance graph - vent should be around 50F. If it splashes inside the eye, it could lead to a serious eye problem. R12 and R134 are of different chemistry. Break out the new gauges and measure hi and lo at 1500rpm, and do the Merc FSM test to see how we're doing performance wise. Jun 17, 2011. The only difference I can imagine would be the recharge connection. R134a systems operate at higher discharge-side pressures than R12, which can cause compressor seals to leak. The evap is hard to get at. A slow loss of cooling at city speeds is usually related to condensor capacity & airflow issues. The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. Right now you know you have a bit too much, but with a CR4P compressor this is an insurance policy. -The amount of R-134a needed will typically be 80-90% of the R-12 charge. A vacuum pump, a refrigerant recover system, quality service gauge set with both low and high side gagues, and much more besides the lessons to learn what to do and what not to do. A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. The cost of recharging the air conditioner is between $150 to $500. . The symbol implies that R12 is a composite of carbon, chlorine, and fluorine. So I probably put the highest suggested amount in to be safe. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. I have one can left, so maybe a plan can be made. Ask Our Pros-Owner Assistance - NO DIY advice will be given. Expansion valves are an active device, they regulate the flow of refrigerant to the evaporator depending on evaporator temperature. Hot coolant migrates up through the core by convection (is that the word? It may take a couple of tries to get things really clean.The laser is usually close on clean surfaces, but I prefer a T/C. If your compressor requires replacement or its seals and o-rings need to be replaced due to leakage, it would be wise at this time to either obtain a compressor that has o-rings and seals that are compatible with R134a or have your unit re-manufactured with compatible components. Even if the system leaks, repairing the leaks and recharging it with R-12 is usually the best repair alternative. Flushed, vacuumed etc. R134a was selected as a replacement refrigerant for R12 because R12 contains chlorine and has a major effect to ozone layer depletion. There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. We chose to use 5-6 ounces of oil to be on the safe side: 3-4 ounces for the compressor, 1 oz of oil for the drier and another ounce of oil for system losses. As an example, let's say the R12 charge specification is listed at 2 lbs. From memory, I put in at least 8 ounces of oil, probably around 10 ounces in there. It will work and there will be very little, in any difference in performance.As Chick stated, the difference is only the gas used in the sensor tube. Bad Car A/C Expansion Valve Symptoms. By using a qualified a/c shop with the proper equipment you odds are in your favor of having the job done correctly the first time. Be sure to test @ 1500 to 2000 engine rpm, and record the ambient temp as well. For R12, its mineral oil. I am ordering new parts, and planning to convert my system to R-134a. Took me a while to figure that one out, and how to say that. We consider the the various types alternative refrigerants that are illegal or not approved to be in two sectors: non-flammables and flammables. A York oil capacity is listed as "6.5 to 9.6 ounces". I've done the FSM test and with 81F ambient, the vent should be 50F. Condensers designed to release greater amounts of heat help to expel the greater amount of heat which R134a removes from the cars interior. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Bohica, You say the drop in performance is not linear with too much oil. Well, I'm not sure it is 'fine' - it doesn't cool very well in 95F weather. This kit comes complete with Expansion valve, o-ring kit, and 1ft. In 1994 they switched from R-12 to R-134a. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. Not osmosis, but you know what I mean). It's not just the poor performance - the cooling just stops working after a while. What was the ambient when you took that reading?Jumpering the aux fan is a common thing here in the desert. Put a relay on the compressor clutch to the aux fan (I like that idea - makes a lot of sense)How does that sound? = R134a Charge Level. Why wait for 200f on the engine coolant to start the fan? Paul:A 1983 240D should have a York compressor on an OEM system. Also called the orifice tube. I dont know why the cost difference between compressors is so huge, though. R134a and R12 are among the most popular types of refrigerants. Rules governing changing from the former to the latter differ between countries. of coiled cap tube on VCR system with R134a. So the steps involved are cleaning out the old oil, replacing all the O-rings, replacing the dryer, replacing the expansion valve, and converting the high and low side connectors from Schrader to quick connect valves. Then again, there are two different expansion valves. Depending on which circuit diagram fits your car (cough, no vin list exists) you have either one or two switches controlling the aux fan. A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. The catalytic converter is an essential component of your car's emission system that helps save the environment from harmful emissions. VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved. The pressure at low temperatures is nearly the same between 12 and 134a. ). So to keep things simple and to avoid controversy and politics we have R134a. a 50f delta across the condensor is good, but I suspect that is an idle reading. Talk about what services you provide. A/C Expansion Valve Replacement Cost. R134a vs R12 refrigerant? Since the hose is the stock hose, you cannot tell what refrigerant is inside. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. The #1 question asked by NEW MEMBERS. They plug all the time. In most cases, the systems used have varied components, designs, and service ports. With tube & fin condensors in MVAC applications there is never "too much" airflow. But, what is considered a good temperature differential across the condensor? If there is no pusher fan, and you have the room, put one in. R-134A has a slightly lower pressure at evaporator temperatures (30-40 degrees), but R-134a also has a much higher pressure at condenser temperatures (120-150 degrees).